The Gospel of Musical Theatre

PRIDE BONUS: The Music Man!

To celebrate Pride Month, Peter and Nathan are joined by the incredible Isaac Lamb and Stephanie Smith, director and musical director for a new and groundbreakingly queer production of Meredith Wilson’s 1957 classic musical The Music Man – which opens at Third Rail Repertory Theatre in Portland, OR, on June 17th.
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We talk about:
– Theatre and church, chamber pieces versus extravagant spectacles, and what led Meredith Wilson to create The Music Man.
– The nature of “political” casting, what it means for six women and non-binary actors to take on these roles, and why casting choices matter.
– Learning how to sing and play an instrument – both in the story of The Music Man and in this production, where the actors accompany themselves.
-The purity (and politics!) of joy, and why a show like The Music Man can help us imagine new possibilities in a multi-racial, multiply-abled, diverse, and rapidly changing world.
– We reference Meredith Wilson’s 1957 book But He Doesn’t Know the Territory which was reissued by University of Minnesota Press in 2020.
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You’ll hear:
Robert Preston, Barbara Cook and the company of the original New York production singing “Seventy-Six Trombones,” “My White Knight” “Sincere,” “Gary, Indiana,” “Rock Island,” “Pick-a-Little” and “Shipoopi”
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Never miss an episode! Sign up for our email list to get updates when new episodes are released, info about upcoming special events, and more.
________________________________
Check out some of our all-time favorites!
Phantom of the Opera
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Jesus Christ Superstar!
Schmigadoon! (Season 1 / Season 2)
West Side Story!
Yentl!
Frozen!
Barbie!
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Continue the conversation with us on Instagram (@gospelofmt).
 

3.10 Into the Woods! (with Ed Bacon!)

We're welcoming a very special guest: Ed Bacon, legendary leader of progressive Christian causes and an inveterate Sondheim fan!
With Ed’s help, we pull apart the spirituality, theology (and the trichology!) of what is probably Stephen Sondheim’s best-known—and arguably best-loved) musical, the 1987 masterpiece Into the Woods.
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We talk about:
- The subversive nature of fairy tales, and what we think we’re doing when we tell these stories to children
- What it means to go “into the woods” – and how can we befriend it?
- Being nice, being good, losing our innocence, and what it means to be "white"
- The complicated nature of community, and the promise and threat of the idea that "no one is alone"
- The Gospel as Fairy Tale (with apologies and gratitude for Frederick Buechner’s Telling the Truth, the book that caused at least one of us to become a priest!)
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You’ll hear:
- Bernadette Peters, Chip Zien, Joanna Gleason and the cast of the Original Broadway Cast Recording (1987) singing “Prologue,” “Giants in the Sky,” “Hello, Little Girl,” “I Know Things Now,” “No One Is Alone”, “Last Midnight,” and “Children Will Listen”
________________________________
Never miss an episode! Sign up for our email list to get updates when new episodes are released, info about upcoming special events, and more.
________________________________
Check out some of our all-time favorites!
Phantom of the Opera
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Jesus Christ Superstar!
Schmigadoon! (Season 1 / Season 2)
West Side Story!
Yentl!
Frozen!
Barbie!
________________________________
Continue the conversation with us on Instagram (@gospelofmt).
 

3.9 Sunday in the Park with George!

It's time for Peter’s favorite Sondheim musical: Sunday in the Park with George!
Stephen Sondheim & James Lapine’s Pulitzer Prize-winning 1985 musical masterpiece is a beautiful meditation on art and art-making. We love this show, and we hope you will too.
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We talk about:
- The Art of Living: Making art, preaching sermons, and suffering & failure in art... and life
- Paying Attention: Noticing & cultivating attention as a spiritual practice
- Art & Relationships: The relational power of art – and the challenge of living with artists!
- Sunday: The multi-faceted nature of the word (and the hymn!) "Sunday:" a day of rest, a day of sabbath, the finding of shalom
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You’ll hear:
-  Bernadette Peters, Mandy Patinkin and the cast of the Original Broadway Cast Recording (1984) singing "Putting It Together," "Finishing the Hat," "We Do Not Belong Together," "Sunday Hymn," "The Day Off," "It’s Hot Up Here," and "Move On"
________________________________
Never miss an episode! Sign up for our email list to get updates when new episodes are released, info about upcoming special events, and more.
________________________________
Check out some of our all-time favorites!
Phantom of the Opera
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Jesus Christ Superstar!
Schmigadoon! (Season 1 / Season 2)
West Side Story!
Yentl!
Frozen!
Barbie!
________________________________
Continue the conversation with us on Instagram (@gospelofmt).
 

3.8 Merrily We Roll Along!

Peter & Nathan's keep rolling through the Sondheim oeuvre with his most notorious "flop," the 1981 Merrily We Roll Along!
Is it really a bitter, nihilistic look at growing older? Or is there actually something—dare we say—holy at work in this experimental, bittersweet musical about growing up?
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We Talk About:
- Prayers: Is it true that, as Mary says, "God don’t answer prayers a lot?"
- Friendship & Spirituality: How Merrily illustrates a theology of friendship and a queer understanding of the spiritual life
- Burning Bridges: What Merrily says about human relationships and the need to "burn your bridges every now and then"
- Time: Different ways of thinking about time – sacramental, liturgical, narrative – and how Merrily subverts conventional narrative and reflects a more sacred sense of time.
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You’ll Hear:
- The Original Company of Merrily We Roll Along on the Original Broadway Cast Recording singing "The Hills of Tomorrow," "Opening Doors," "Now You Know," "Good Thing Going," "Our Time" and "Bobby and Jackie and Jack"
- Celia Keenan-Bolger and Lin-Manuela Miranda singing "Old Friends" and "Like It Was" from the 2012 Encores! Cast Recording
- Bernadette Peters singing "Not A Day Goes By"
________________________________
Never miss an episode! Sign up for our email list to get updates when new episodes are released, info about upcoming special events, and more.
________________________________
Check out some of our all-time favorites!
Phantom of the Opera
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Jesus Christ Superstar!
Schmigadoon! (Season 1 / Season 2)
West Side Story!
Yentl!
Frozen!
Barbie!
________________________________
Continue the conversation with us on Instagram (@gospelofmt).
 

3.7 Sweeney Todd! (with Arwen Myers!)

Sort of-guest Arwen Myers—soprano, Sweeney stan, and executive producer of this podcast—joins Peter and Nathan for a wide-reaching conversation about her favorite musical... which just happens to be about murder and meat pies (and Victor Garber).
That's right: it's the 1979 Tony-Award winning Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street!
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We talk about:
- The Dies Irae: The medieval chant Dies Irae and how it frames Sweeney Todd as a story about death, violence, and revenge with explicitly religious overtones.  
– Who's the Villian? Who’s the real villain of Sweeney Todd? We talk about how none of these characters are who they appear to be, and how the music helps to signal what’s going on underneath.
– Sacred Violence: The various versions of Christianity that haunt this show, notions of sacred violence, sin & sacrifice, and the redemptive promise—or false lure?—of blood.  
– Are We All Sweeney? The social & cultural aspects of the world that’s being presented – and we make of the warning embedded in this very dark musical. Is Sweeney "out there..." or is he inside each of us?
– Is this show actually about Victor Garber?
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You’ll hear:
Angela Lansbury, Len Cariou, Ken Jennings, Victor Garber, and Edmund Lyndeck on the Original Broadway Cast Recording singing "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd," "A Little Priest," "Johanna," "The Worst Pies in London," "Epiphany," and "Not While I’m Around."
________________________________
Never miss an episode! Sign up for our email list to get updates when new episodes are released, info about upcoming special events, and more.
________________________________
Check out some of our all-time favorites!
Phantom of the Opera
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Jesus Christ Superstar!
Schmigadoon! (Season 1 / Season 2)
West Side Story!
Yentl!
Frozen!
Barbie!
________________________________
Continue the conversation with us on Instagram (@gospelofmt).
 

3.6 A Little Night Music!

We're talking about Sondheim's most commercially successful musical, A Little Night Music (1973) – a witty, clever sex comedy made up, in Hal Prince’s famous words, of "whipped cream with knives."
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We Talk About:
– The show’s big themes – love, sex & time – and how they find expression in the music, especially the now-iconic "Send in the Clowns." 
– Three generations exploring love & relationships and the nature of aging. 
– The complicated nature of intergenerational relationships – both creepy and beautiful. 
– The problem of timing, and the complication of lining up sexual attraction with the commitment that love demands. ________________________________
You’ll Hear:
– Both Glynnis Johns and Catherine Zeta-Jones singing "Send in the Clowns" from the 1973 Original Broadway Cast and the 2010 Broadway Revival Cast recordings.
– Elaine Tompkinson singing “The Glamorous Life” from the 1975 Film Soundtrack. 
– The company of the Original Broadway Cast singing "Overture," "Remember," "You Must Meet My Wife," "Now," "Liasons,” and "The Miller’s Son."
________________________________
Never miss an episode! Sign up for our email list to get updates when new episodes are released, info about upcoming special events, and more.
________________________________
Check out some of our all-time favorites!
Phantom of the Opera
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Jesus Christ Superstar!
Schmigadoon! (Season 1 / Season 2)
West Side Story!
Yentl!
Frozen!
Barbie!
________________________________
Continue the conversation with us on Instagram (@gospelofmt).
 

BONUS: Sondheim & Judaism (with Michael & Ida Rae Cahana)!

Today we welcome two very special guests: Cantor Ida Rae and Rabbi Michael Cahana of Portland’s Congregation Beth Israel!  
We're chatting about Sondheim’s Jewish heritage – and the subversive power of ritual & theatre in Jewish contexts.
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We talk about:
Jewishness in the music of Leonard Bernstein & Stephen Sondheim
West Side Story as an immigrant show exploring the tension between alienation and assimilation
"Outsider" narratives in Sondheim’s stories as a reflection of both his Judaism and his homosexuality
The "problem of the ending" – and the phenomenon of unresolved musical, dramatic, and theological conclusions
Purim, the tradition of the Purim Spiel, and the subversive nature of Purim
How we pass down our stories to our children
*Read Gabrielle Hoyt’s article "Kaddish for Steve" at https://www.americantheatre.org/2022/01/28/kaddish-for-steve-on-the-jewishness-of-sondheim/________________________________
You’ll hear:
The Prologue and Quintet ("Tonight") from West Side Story (2022 film soundtrack)
The documentary Original Cast Album (You can find it on YouTube!)
The Finale ("Children Will Listen") from Into The Woods (Original Broadway Cast recording)
"I Remember" from Evening Primrose (Sung by Bernadette Peters on the 2016 Album The Essential Sondheim)
The cast of Congregation Beth Israel’s 2016 production of West Side Spiel. Watch the whole Spiel on CBI’s YouTube page: https://youtu.be/Ely7r_Ax_AE
________________________________
Never miss an episode! Sign up for our email list to get updates when new episodes are released, info about upcoming special events, and more.
________________________________
Check out some of our all-time favorites!
Phantom of the Opera
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Jesus Christ Superstar!
Schmigadoon! (Season 1 / Season 2)
West Side Story!
Yentl!
Frozen!
Barbie!
________________________________
Continue the conversation with us on Instagram (@gospelofmt).
 

3.5 Follies!

It's camp o'clock! Peter & Nathan turn to Sondheim’s 1971 iconic Follies, a show that takes a loving—but brutal—look at nostalgia, camp, the power of memory, and the danger of looking back.
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We talk about:
Nostalgia. The role of nostalgia and the warning articulated in Follies: "never look back"
Camp. The nature of camp, Susan Sontag’s essay "Notes on Camp" and how Follies explores campiness, drag culture, and the excesses of the 20th century
Women. Follies as a show about women and women’s bodies
Spirits. Ghosts, the communion of saints, and the past's impact on the present
Aging. The spirituality of aging, what it means to be fully alive, and the power of endurance
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You’ll hear:
The Prologue, "Beautiful Girls," "Broadway Baby," and "In Buddy’s Eyes" as performed by Bernadette Peters, Jayne Houdyshell, Michael Haynes and the company of the 2012 Broadway Revival production
The late, great Barbara Cook singing "Losing My Mind" from the 1985 Concert Recording
The legendary Elaine Stritch performing "I’m Still Here"—which you have to watch on YouTube and then find all the other women in red singing their Sondheim tributes: https://youtu.be/3Xz1TUgdG6A
________________________________
Never miss an episode! Sign up for our email list to get updates when new episodes are released, info about upcoming special events, and more.
________________________________
Check out some of our all-time favorites!
Phantom of the Opera
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Jesus Christ Superstar!
Schmigadoon! (Season 1 / Season 2)
West Side Story!
Yentl!
Frozen!
Barbie!
________________________________
Continue the conversation with us on Instagram (@gospelofmt).